perm filename MAIL.RLL[RLL,DBL]4 blob
sn#714501 filedate 1983-06-06 generic text, type C, neo UTF8
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C00001 00001
C00003 00002 ∂16-Dec-82 2112 Lee Erman <LErman at SRI-KL> RLL wallowing
C00018 00003 ∂Tue 15 Feb 83 19:10:29-PST <CSD.LENAT@SU-SCORE.ARPA> [MSIMS@RUTGERS: A question about Eurisko/AM.]
C00030 00004 ∂29-Mar-83 1121 CSD.GREINER@SU-SCORE [Gavin Hemphill <hemphill@NRL-AIC>: rll-1 paper]
C00037 00005 ∂17:15 21-Apr: kwh@mit-mc, agre@mit-mc/cc, csd.lenat@score/su RLL info
C00041 00006 ∂16:39 13-May: de2smith@sumex/su CORLL Stuff
C00042 00007 ∂11:56 7-May: mann@isib,lenat@score/su RLL Code
C00049 00008 ∂13-May-83 1459 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: Info, and Thanks
C00070 00009 ∂18 May 1983 0532-PDT RTAYLOR at USC-ECL RLL
C00078 ENDMK
C⊗;
∂16-Dec-82 2112 Lee Erman <LErman at SRI-KL> RLL wallowing
To: DLENAT at SRI-KL, RDG at SU-AI
Doug and Rus,
This is to reiterate my conversation with Doug this evening:
I would like to bring up at Teknowledge some RLL system that I can use for
my educational benefit. I particularly would like to have a reasonably
extensive example use, to rummage in and play with. I would expect other
Tek folks might also want to play.
Doug and I agreed I would get back to you two the week after Christmas, and
that would be a good time to prevail on you for some help.
thanks,
Lee
-------
∂TO LErman@sri-kl, dlenat@sri-kl/cc 11:34 29-Dec-82
re: RLL (s)wallowing
Lee -
It's not clear just what RLL's state *really* is these days.
The most up-to-date version had been at USC-ISIB, on the <MANCOM.RLL>
directory. Unfortunately there is no guarantee that that system is working;
the ISI "liason" left the project rather abruptly (for personal reasons,)
in the middle of a bundle of alterations. If you still have an account there,
and ISI's good will, perhaps you could play with it there for a bit...
A prior implementation was up and running at Rand, but, as
Rick can tell you, not only did that project all-but-die,
(at least with respect to its RLL association,) but Rand-Ai TOPS20 itself left!
And as for me, personally: I have gone on to work with MRS, and will
eventually bring up RLL's good features within that system.
However, if all of this doesn't dissuade you, do give me a call
at 497-1863, and I'll try to help (... "to bring up an implementation", not
"to further discourage you").
By the way, how are you finding picturesque, pastoral, pleasant
Palo Alto? Are you still recorder-ing?
Russ
∂Tue 15 Feb 83 19:10:29-PST <CSD.LENAT@SU-SCORE.ARPA> [MSIMS@RUTGERS: A question about Eurisko/AM.]
To: CSD.GREINER@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Please send Michael Sims, at Rutgers CS Dept, a copy of RLL.
Thanks
Doug
---------------
Mail-from: SU-NET host SAIL rcvd at 15-Feb-83 1632-PST
Received: from SU-DSN by SU-AI with PUP; 15-Feb-83 16:30 PST
Received: From RUTGERS by SU-DSN.ARPA at Tue Feb 15 16:27:14 1983
Date: 15 Feb 1983 1925-EST
From: MSIMS@RUTGERS
Subject: A question about Eurisko/AM.
To: Lenat@SU-AI
cc: Msims@RUTGERS
Doug,
Saul Amarel said that you will be sending along some listings and a
copy of RLL. I am most grateful. I feel that I have a much better
chance of doing interesting work if I can learn from your experiences.
There is one point about Eurisko/AM that is puzzling me. I have
gotten from your writings that when Eurisko attacked the domain
investigated by AM, that it did not perform better than AM. Of course
there are things which Eurisko does and AM does not do, eg., the
discovery of heuristics and the flexibility of representation and
control. Since Eurisko does so much more than AM it is natural to
expect Eurisko to be less efficient. Also it seems most reasonable to
me that Eurisko did not discover new heuristics there because of the
extensive past investigations of number theory, as you have suggested.
However my impression is that the encoding of AM's knowledge base in
the more general framework of Eurisko didn't offer any advantages.
This issue of power is important to me, because my system will
probably sit closer to AM than Eurisko. I am hoping that I can trade
some of the flexibility and generality of Eurisko for power in a
specific application domain. Ignoring issues of the learning of
heuristics (a very big if to be sure), do you think this kind of trade
off is possible? Practically this sort of trade off seems my only
choice if I want to pursue this line of research. Attempting to build
a system with the scope of Eurisko seems out of the question with the
kind of time scale I have for getting a degree.
Let me know what you think. Thanks.
-Michael
-------
∂26-Feb-83 1742 AGRE@MIT-MC [Nth attempt to send this, apologies for any lossage.]
Received: from SUMEX-AIM by SU-AI with PUP; 26-Feb-83 17:19 PST
Received: from MIT-MC.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Thu 24 Feb 83 08:51:28-PST
Date: Thursday, 24 February 1983 02:31-EST
Sender: AGRE @ MIT-OZ
From: AGRE @ MIT-MC
to: greiner @ sumex
cc: AGRE @ MIT-OZ
Subject: [Nth attempt to send this, apologies for any lossage.]
In-reply-to: Msg of 24 Feb 1983 00:50-EST from AGRE
Russell (Russ? whatever), I was speaking with Doug Lenat a couple weeks ago
about Eurisko, and he mentioned that there is a paper that describes RLL in
fair detail. (I've got the AAAI-80 paper.) I'd much appreciate it if you
could send me a copy, and a pointer to the source code too if that's OK, and
a copy of the CORLL paper and code if that's OK too, and anything else that
I might find useful in writing RLL-like and Eurisko-like things myself.
Thanks alot.
Phil Agre
MIT AI Lab
545 Tech Sq Rm 711
Cambridge MA 02139
net: AGRE@MC works best
∂TO csd.lenat@score 16:13 3-March-83
Favors
Doug -
I sent Phil Agre a copy of the RLL papers, together with some MRS
stuff. Mailing the code is a bit more difficult: ISI's machines automatically
archive all files which have not been accessed for X amount of time,
which means that essentially all the RLL source code is currently "offline".
I could ask Bill Mann to retrieve it, but that will cost us a favor.
Is it worth it? Or should I point Agre and Sims to Mann directly?
Finally, I could simply (naively) send them my ISIB account and password,
and let them "learn" about off-line files, and methods of retrieval.
Other suggestions?
----
On other fronts: I talked to Johann the other day, and came away
pondering/discouraged/confused. Could we meet sometime soon to discuss it?
One particular issue is how to encode the domain facts:
whether in my current, rather procedural (production rule based) manner,
or in a more declarative (deKleer-ative?) manner.
... and does any of this make any different, for a analogizing system which
strives to be impervious(sp) to idiosyncrasies of representations?
Anyway, my schedule is open, as always. When is a good time for you?
Russ
∂03-Mar-83 2356 CSD.LENAT@SU-SCORE Re: Favors
Come over 2:30 on Tuesday.
Point Phil to Mann.
We will disucuss proc/decl on Tues. -- don't get depressed!
Doug
-------
∂TO 16:42 4-MAR-83
CSD.LENAT@SCORE/SU Re: Favors
Doug -
What should I do wrt Micheal Sims, of Rutgers?
Point him to Mann as well?
Also, Johann deposited my copy of MI3 the other day; did you pick it up?
See you Tuesday, 8/March, at ParcPlace.
Russ
∂04-Mar-83 1909 CSD.LENAT@SU-SCORE Re: Favors
Yes, same ptr.
I picked up MI3 and it is on my desk in MJH
See you Tue
Doug
-------
∂14:56 7-Mar
MSIMS@RUTGERS, AGRE@MC, CSD.LENAT@SU-SCORE/cc/subj RLL: ↑Code & ↑Documentation
Michael, Phil,
You should soon be receiving the (outdated) RLL documents you requested,
by snail mail. That bundle has been augmented with miscellaneous MRS
documents, for reasons which will be clear later. Providing the actual
code has proven a bit more difficult.
Some background: About a year ago, in the interest of graduating, my time
and energy shifted from RLL czar to thesis-ing. Others, including Dr
William Mann and some of his coworkers at USC/ISI, continued to develop
and augment RLL. For that reason the most up-to-date version had been at
USC-ISIB, on the <MANCOM.RLL> directory. Unfortunately there is no
guarantee that that system is working; the ISI liason/principle-updater
left the project rather abruptly (for personal reasons) in the middle of a
bundle of alterations. Furthermore, much of the needed code has been
archived (and deleted). To access it will require either competence with
the TOPS20 retrieval command, or some ISIer's assistance; or more likely,
both. MANN@ISIB may be able to provide the latter, or at least point you
to the right person. As this letter implies, you have both my blessing
and encouragement to examine/use/update whatever code you can; and my
permission (subject to Dr Mann's approval) to use that ISI account.
I personally am coding in MRS these days, and eventually hope to bring up
(all and only) RLL's good features within that system. As the documents
show, the two systems are fairly similar in theme and capabilities; the
major differences (wrt me) lying in the facts that someone else is
responsible for its adminstrative and technical support, promotion, etc.;
and that MRS, having a larger "constituency", will probably be maintained
(if not for perpetuity at least for a while).
However, if all of this doesn't dissuade you, do give me a call at (415)
497-1863, and I'll try to help ("... to bring up an implementation", not
"... to further discourage you").
Russ
RDG@SAIL (or GREINER@SUMEX)
∂29-Mar-83 1121 CSD.GREINER@SU-SCORE [Gavin Hemphill <hemphill@NRL-AIC>: rll-1 paper]
Subject: [Gavin Hemphill <hemphill@NRL-AIC>: rll-1 paper]
To: rdg@SU-AI.ARPA
cc: csd.lenat@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Return-Path: hemphill@nrl-aic
Received: from nrl-aic by SU-SCORE.ARPA with TCP; Tue 29 Mar 83 07:40:07-PST
Date: 29 Mar 1983 08:57:39-PST
From: Gavin Hemphill <hemphill@NRL-AIC>
To: csd.greiner at su-score
Subject: rll-1 paper
Defence Research Establishment Atlantic,
Box 1012,
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia,
B2Y 3Z7
Tel: 1-902-426-3100 ext. 189
Dear Russell Greiner,
I have just finished reading your interesting paper,
"RLL-1: A Representation Language Language", which is an expanded
version of the paper published in AAA-80. I'm keen to learn more about
RLL.
A version of the UNIT PACKAGE (see 1 below) is being used in
our research to build an expert system to interpret acoustic data.
(We've taken to calling it UNIT*.) Last year, I implemented an object-
centered approach for inheritance roles in UNIT*. I concluded that more
of the package would have to be changed to an object-centered implementation
before it would be truly extensible. Imagine my delight to find that you
had already designed another language to do just that!
What is the current status of the RLL project? Can you tell me
more about the implementation details of RLL-1? How different is RLL-1 from
the UNIT PACKAGE? I would appreciate answers to any of these questions and
any other information available about RLL. I may be reached at the above
address or by sending NET mail to G.HEMPHILL at SU.SCORE.
I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks.
Sincerely,
Ann Dent
1) R. G. Smith and R. E. Friedland, Unit Package User's Guide,
DREA TM 80/L, Defence Research Establishment Atlantic, Dartmouth,
Nova Scotia, Canada, December 1980. (Also published as HPP-80-28,
Heuristic Programming Project, Stanford University. )
-------
∂16:02 30-Mar: G.HEMPHILL@SCORE, CSD.LENAT@SU-SCORE/cc/subj RLL: ↑Code & ↑Documentation
Dr Dent,
It's not clear just what RLL's state *really* is these days.
About a year ago, in the interest of graduating, my time
and energy shifted from RLL czar-ing to thesis-ing.
I am personally coding in MRS these days, and eventually hope to bring up
(all and only) RLL's good features within that system.
These two systems are fairly similar in theme and capabilities,
(as both grew out of the same meetings, several years ago;)
the major differences (wrt me) lying in the facts that someone else is
responsible for its adminstrative and technical support, promotion, etc.;
and that MRS, having a larger "constituency", will probably be maintained
(if not for perpetuity at least for a while).
Let me know if you would like me to send you the set of MRS documents.
Returning to RLL, proper, a form of its code does still exist, sorta.
Dr William Mann and some of his coworkers at USC/ISI continued to develop
and augment RLL even after I left. For that reason the most up-to-date
version had been at
USC-ISIB, on the <MANCOM.RLL> directory. Unfortunately there is no
guarantee that that system is working; the ISI liason/principle-updater
left the project rather abruptly (for personal reasons) in the middle of a
bundle of alterations. Furthermore, much of the needed code has been
archived (and deleted). To access it will require either competence with
the TOPS20 retrieval command, or some ISIer's assistance; or more likely,
both. MANN@ISIB may be able to provide the latter, or at least point you
to the right person. As this letter implies, you have both my blessing
and encouragement to examine/use/update whatever code you can; and my
permission (subject to Dr Mann's approval) to use that ISI account.
Anyway, if all of this doesn't dissuade you, do give me a call at (415)
497-1863, and I'll try to help ("... to bring up an implementation, and/or
to discuss the ideas of RLL/MRS", not "... to further discourage you").
Russ
RDG@SAIL (or GREINER@SUMEX)
∂17:15 21-Apr: kwh@mit-mc, agre@mit-mc/cc, csd.lenat@score/su RLL info
First, I just spoke with Wes, who told me he was going to use Doug's
rll system, rather than my hard-to-access ex-system.
Second, below is a list of the KBs I had, as of 1982:
(Do realize I've not examined these in years -- and my memory may be faulty...)
[Kept on RAND-AI: <GREINER.RLL>]
RLL - held the basic system
USERS - facts about each user
LISPFNS - some facts about some LISP functions
SLOTS - stored facts about each slot in starting RLL system
ALL of the above were needed for RLL to run.
---
HEURS - list of heuristics, which EURISKO could use
GENLINFO - overview of the world -- VERY sketchy
EURISKO - basic agenda based control scheme.
The above three were nice -- still very fragmentary.
---
SPILL - see "Building Expert System" book
RATALE - beginning of rationalization, I think???
[Kept on SCORE: <CSD.RLL>]
<<none of these were ever really used. Ask Doug about their actual contents>>
BIOLOGY - basic facts about animals, etc.
SETS - facts about sets, again coarse
NUMBER - facts about number theory
MATH - gen'l facts re: mathematics -- required by SETS and NUMBERS
---
RESOL - a resolution-theorem-prover, to be.
[Begun by Larry Hines, of UofTexas]
***---***
The naming scheme (as we discussed on the phone)
*.KB - file which only CORLL knew how to use
*.XKB - human readable version of a knowledge base
-- I think in the format unit1(p1 v1 ... pn vn)unit2(p1' v1' ... pn' vn')
where unit1, unit2 are the names of units, and p-i's are properties
(slots) and the v-i's are the values of these slots.
*.. - is the InterLisp file, associated with this KB
*.COM - ILisp compiled code, of course
-----
Third, the following people have each,
at one point or another, expressed interest in using this RLL system:
Caroll Johnston - JOHNSTON@SUMEX ?
Lee Erman - LErman@sri-kl
Michael Sims - MSIMS@RUTGERS
Gavin Hemphill - hemphill@NRL-AIC or G.HEMPHILL@SCORE
----
Good luck.
Any word from Bill Mann wrt copying that tape?
Let me know if there is anything else I can do.
Russ
∂16:39 13-May: de2smith@sumex/su CORLL Stuff
Dave -
Unfortunately the only remaining copy of some RLL code I
wrote WAYYYY back when is in the CORLL *.KB format.
(The human-readable XKB files mysteriously vanished!)
Did you archive the corll stuff on SUMEX?
How hard would it be to temporary resurrect CORLL,
just long enough to generate those usable files?
Thanks,
Russ
∂11:56 7-May: mann@isib,lenat@score/su RLL Code
Bill,
It looks like I will be needing the RLL code after all.
What is the best way for me to get access to the data on the Rand tape?
Is it very difficult/time-consuming to "retrieve" the files from that
tape, storing them on {ISIB}<Mancom.Rll>? Otherwise could you mail
me a copy of that tape? Or can you suggest some other method...?
Thanks much, both for your help here, and for your efforts in responding
to other recent RLL-related inquiries,
Russ
PS Have you heard from Steve of-late? Is there any chance he'll be returning
to your projects in a more active capacity?
∂07-May-83 1334 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: RLL Code
From: William C. Mann <MANN@USC-ISIB>
To: Russell Greiner <RDG@SU-AI>
cc: LENAT@SU-SCORE
Russ:
I can mail you the original tape from Rand. It's never been read here, but I
suspect that it's fine. (I think everything was put on the tape twice,
anyway. It was all done with DUMPER, which makes it easy to recreate the
directories. )
It seems unlikely now that Steve will be back, and without him we won't
continue our RLL experimentation. (From his description of his company, it
sounded like a pretty unstable situation; I'm surprised it's lasted this
long.)
We are going to start some kind of comparable experimentation at some point,
but I think we'll want to go through a phase which is not very demanding on
the KR first. When we do something more demanding on the KR, it probably will
be with a different base system. We've made very satisfying progress toward a
linguistically sophisticated text generation system. The present version has
a tight interface around it to shield it from arbitrary representational
variation, so we will be able to accommodate a variety of KR styles, even to
both framish and FOPC styles.
There is a certain risk in sending the only copy, but if you're willing, then
we will. As long as you never put a write ring in, I think the world will be
safe.
Let me know whether I should send it.
Cheers.
Bill
-------
∂22:04 10-May: MANN@ISIB, lenat@scor/su RLL Code, Revisited
Bill,
Mailing the only existing copy of RLL sounds rather risky.
I'd much prefer to have it dumped there, and FTPed here.
With your permission, I'll mail the following message to
OPERATOR@ISIB/subj Tape Mounting
Sir (or Madam) -
How does one arrange to have an archieval tape dumped?
Dr William Mann has the actual tape, whose contents I'd like to
deposit in the {ISIB}MANCOM.RLL directory.
Thank you,
Russ
[RDG@SAIL]
We here will pay any cost involved with this operation.
Also, I'll of course delete the files from that ISIB directory
after they have been safely transported.
Thanks,
Russ
∂11-May-83 0847 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: RLL Code, Revisited
In-Reply-To: Your message of 10 May 83 2204 PDT
Russ:
Whatever you do, don't offer money!!! We want to keep this process finite.
I'll be happy to help for free, but if you offer money, count me out.
Please send/phone me the MANCOM.RLL password; I've lost it. Then I can manage
the next few steps from here. It would be better not to send the message to
the OPERATOR.
We are, in fact, very short of disk on ISIB, chronically. If necessary I'll
time things to fall right after the weekend archiving.
Cheers.
Bill
-------
∂17:51 11-May: MANN@USC-ISIB/su Info, and Thanks
Bill -
Thanks much for agreeing to perform this bothersome task,
especially as it's a hassle which gains you essentially nothing
(besides my undying gratitude, of course).
You will, of course, let me know if there is anything I can do for
you here...
Anyway, the password for MANCOM.RLL is LENAT. If there is
a space crunch, the files I want most are the *.XKB ones.
Cheers,
Russ
∂12-May-83 1030 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: Info, and Thanks
Russ:
We're part way, having solvable software problems with the tapes.
I've created a new subdirectory, MANCOM.RLL.RAND, with the same password. So
far I just have a directory of the tape in it. You can look through the list
of files if you want. See file WM901.MTDIR.
I'll keep working on getting the actual files.
Cheers.
Bill
-------
∂13-May-83 1459 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: Info, and Thanks
In-Reply-To: Your message of 11 May 83 1751 PDT
Russ:
Software problems are overcome. But: I shouldn't put all of the files in 1
subdirectory. The tape has 3, and there are name conflicts. There is
<GREINER>, <GREINER.RLL> AND <GREINER.CORLL>.
If you want stuff from just one of those, I'll put it in the one I've created,
otherwise I'll create more.
Also, I requested that everything in <MANCOM.RLL> be archived, to regain some
space. I assume you already had whatever you wanted from there.
Cheers.
Bill
-------
∂16:57 13-May: MANN@USC-ISIB/su The best laid plans on Mycin Men ...
Bill-
Thanks for your diligent work! I read through that
list of files, and began assembling the list of the files
I think I'll need (or actually a superset of them),
Unfortunately, it seems that the files I need most,
notably RLL.XKB and SLOTS.XKB, are empty!
[Assuming that final column refers to file size...]
If so I may also need the CORLL stuff, with which to read in and transform
the corresponding *.KB files.
(I may be able to get a backed-up [back-uped?] version of CORLL from here.
We'll see.)
(Assuming I don't need that version of CORLL,)
the desired files are listed below, arranged by directories.
Note that essentially all are from <GREINER.RLL>.
(Is it easier to just dump the entire directory?)
Next: yes, there is nothing on MANCOM.RLL I now use.
(The files I recognized were all Steve's things.)
Finally, I should know about CORLL in a few days.
Would you rather wait until then before doing the unDUMPing,
to avoid the possibility of having to do two tape-mounts, ...?
Thanks again,
Russ
--------
PS:<GREINER>ARCHIVED.FILES.1 7-Jun-82 1504 2
PS:<GREINER.RLL>AUX..1 26-Mar-81 2030 6
PS:<GREINER.RLL>DELTA..1 11-Jun-82 1503 3
PS:<GREINER.RLL>FAULTSTUFF..5 14-Apr-82 1514 2
PS:<GREINER.RLL>RLL..47 27-Apr-82 1808 52
PS:<GREINER.RLL>RLL.KB.24 22-Dec-81 1744 102
PS:<GREINER.RLL>RLL.XKB.1 22-Oct-81 1812 0
PS:<GREINER.RLL>RLLPATCH..1 29-Apr-82 1733 2
PS:<GREINER.RLL>SLOTS.KB.26 22-Dec-81 1744 112
PS:<GREINER.RLL>SLOTS.XKB.1 22-Oct-81 1814 0
PS:<GREINER.RLL>SPECS..11 7-Nov-81 2203 4
PS:<GREINER.RLL>SPILL..1 26-Mar-81 2049 1
PS:<GREINER.RLL>SPILL.XKB.1 18-Oct-81 1136 15
PS:<GREINER.RLL>TODO..33 3-Dec-81 2305 2
PS:<GREINER.RLL>TODO.DONE.4 3-Dec-81 2305 1
PS:<GREINER.RLL>USERS.KB.25 22-Dec-81 1744 16
PS:<GREINER.RLL>USERS.XKB.1 22-Oct-81 1820 0
PS:<GREINER.RLL>UTIL..50 28-Apr-82 1907 85
PS:<GREINER.RLL>EURISKO..2 10-Nov-81 0005 9
PS:<GREINER.RLL>EURISKO.KB.1 2-Jun-81 1340 0
PS:<GREINER.RLL>EURISKO.XKB.1 22-Oct-81 1749 15
PS:<GREINER.RLL>FIELD..13 27-Apr-82 1808 11
PS:<GREINER.RLL>FIELD.XKB.2 25-Oct-81 1623 5
PS:<GREINER.RLL>GENLINFO..1 26-Mar-81 2041 1
PS:<GREINER.RLL>GENLINFO.XKB.1 18-Oct-81 1133 2
PS:<GREINER.RLL>HEURS..1 26-Mar-81 2042 4
PS:<GREINER.RLL>HEURS.XKB.1 18-Oct-81 1131 5
PS:<GREINER.RLL>LISPFNS.KB.23 22-Dec-81 1744 21
PS:<GREINER.RLL>LISPFNS.XKB.1 22-Oct-81 1811 0
PS:<GREINER.RLL>MU..1 13-Jun-81 1750 11
PS:<GREINER.RLL>PROP..2 15-Apr-82 1644 10
∂13-May-83 1720 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: The best laid plans on Mycin Men ...
Russ:
Thanks for the list. It turns out we have a visitor from >50 miles (i.e. an
expert) coming Monday and Tuesday. I'll try to get to it Wed.
Also, Steve had to fix some Corll stuff in order to get it to run here. The
latest stuff is in the <MJAMES> directory, some possibly archived.
Could it be that the zeroes in the Rand dump reflect dumping archived files?
I'll probably just dump the whole directory from tape to dsk.
Cheers.
Bill
-------
∂19-May-83 0951 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: The best laid plans on Mycin Men ...
Russ:
Wallah:: The stuff below is the whole <GREINER.RLL> directory
from the tape, all taken from the first copy on the tape. Nothing was
restored from the other directories, because you didn't want any of that
stuff.
I hope it's all satisfactory. I'll leave it in place for the remainder of May
for FTPeeing, and then will probably wipe it all out just to recover the
space.
I hope it all works. Let me know if I can help more. (On the CORLL stuff, if
you want to use that, I can get stuff from the tape, but you should at least
look at the changes Steve made in it afterward. Our core balances revealed
CORLL bugs.)
Cheers.
Bill
[USC-ISIB] 19-May-83 09:40:11
PS:<MANCOM.RLL.RAND>
PGS Write
AUX..1 6 26-Mar-81 20:30:41
.COM.1 7 26-Mar-81 20:30:47
BUGLET..1 10 20-Apr-82 16:55:19
DA5.CTL.1 1 13-Apr-82 16:10:52
DELTA..1 3 11-Jun-82 15:03:50
DIRECTORY.OWNER.1 1 26-Oct-81 17:21:40
EURISKO..1 9 26-Mar-81 20:40:38
.2 9 10-Nov-81 00:05:37
.COM.2 7 10-Nov-81 00:05:40
.XKB.1 15 22-Oct-81 17:49:19
FAULTSTUFF..5 2 14-Apr-82 15:14:22
FIELD..11 10 31-Oct-81 18:36:59
.12 11 15-Apr-82 16:37:18
.13 11 27-Apr-82 18:08:11
.COM.12 9 15-Apr-82 16:37:23
.13 9 27-Apr-82 18:08:15
.KB.5 10 31-Oct-81 18:14:34
.6 14 9-Nov-81 16:47:21
.XKB.2 5 25-Oct-81 16:23:35
GENLINFO..1 1 26-Mar-81 20:41:43
.COM.1 1 26-Mar-81 20:41:45
.XKB.1 2 18-Oct-81 11:33:45
GREINER-KB-CHANGES.APR20.3 1 27-Apr-82 18:47:12
.4 1 27-Apr-82 18:51:53
.5 1 27-Apr-82 18:58:01
.APR27.1 1 27-Apr-82 19:21:02
.APR28.1 1 28-Apr-82 18:58:58
.APR29.1 2 29-Apr-82 15:32:37
HEURS..1 4 26-Mar-81 20:42:11
.COM.1 4 26-Mar-81 20:42:18
.XKB.1 5 18-Oct-81 11:31:18
KB-CHANGES.MAR16.2 3 20-Apr-82 18:12:06
.3 3 22-Apr-82 14:20:01
LISPFNS.KB.21 23 9-Nov-81 17:03:39
.22 14 10-Nov-81 00:43:08
.23 21 22-Dec-81 17:44:49
MU..1 11 13-Jun-81 17:50:37
.COM.1 9 13-Jun-81 17:50:42
NEWADDITIONS..3 6 14-Apr-82 15:13:34
OLD..5 1 14-Nov-81 20:53:38
.KB.2 8 14-Nov-81 21:06:10
OLD-TO-ENTRY.FROM-RETR.1 10 23-Jul-81 23:51:15
PATCH.KB.1 6 10-Apr-82 14:32:28
.XKB.4 4 10-Apr-82 14:48:32
PENMAN..13 4 20-Apr-82 13:22:41
.COM.13 5 20-Apr-82 13:28:16
.XKB.2 8 20-Apr-82 13:23:02
PROP..1 10 14-Apr-82 19:40:19
.2 10 15-Apr-82 16:44:57
.COM.1 10 14-Apr-82 19:40:23
.2 10 15-Apr-82 16:45:01
PROTO-RLL.EXE.1 403 28-Apr-82 19:13:27
RATALE..6 5 26-Sep-81 14:14:00
.7 7 27-Sep-81 17:06:30
.COM.7 6 27-Sep-81 17:17:33
.KB.4 21 26-Sep-81 14:09:49
.5 59 27-Sep-81 17:13:30
RECORDKBCHANGE..19 10 14-Apr-82 15:17:41
.20 10 14-Apr-82 19:26:49
.COM.1 13 14-Apr-82 19:26:59
RLL..45 52 15-Apr-82 16:37:58
.46 52 15-Apr-82 16:56:21
.47 52 27-Apr-82 18:08:40
.COM.47 46 27-Apr-82 18:08:47
.KB.22 80 9-Nov-81 17:15:20
.23 80 10-Nov-81 00:47:07
.24 102 22-Dec-81 17:44:55
RLLPATCH..1 2 29-Apr-82 17:33:13
SLOTS.KB.24 136 9-Nov-81 17:14:56
.25 92 10-Nov-81 00:43:15
.26 112 22-Dec-81 17:44:50
SPECS..11 4 7-Nov-81 22:03:13
SPILL..1 1 26-Mar-81 20:49:38
.COM.1 1 26-Mar-81 20:49:42
.XKB.1 15 18-Oct-81 11:36:22
TODO..33 2 3-Dec-81 23:05:24
.DONE.4 1 3-Dec-81 23:05:34
TRACE.APR28.1 59 28-Apr-82 14:33:13
.APR29.1 19 29-Apr-82 14:24:01
.JUN11.1 7 11-Jun-82 14:59:31
TRACEA.APR20.1 7 20-Apr-82 14:26:26
.APR29.1 13 29-Apr-82 16:27:45
.JUN11.1 5 11-Jun-82 15:34:50
USERS.KB.21 9 9-Nov-81 17:15:14
.24 9 10-Nov-81 00:46:56
.25 16 22-Dec-81 17:44:52
UTIL..50 85 28-Apr-82 19:07:26
.51 85 11-Jun-82 15:43:30
.COM.50 86 28-Apr-82 19:09:55
.51 86 11-Jun-82 15:43:57
WM901.MTDIR.1 13 18-May-83 17:49:10
Total of 2212 pages in 91 files
-------
∂15:17 21-May: MANN@ISIB/su Other Clues?
Bill -
Thanks for retrieving the files. I tried to convert the
*.KB files found into usable *.XKB files, using the CORLL stuff on
the <MJAMES> directory -- sans success. Are there tricks which you
(or dr M James) know which can help me in this task? Is there
an actively used CORLL sysout lying around (my difficulties seem to
stem from my inability to load up those files)?
If not, I'll FTP those files here, retrieve the CORLL files
from this end, and try locally.
Thanks again for your (and MJAMES?) help.
Russ
∂22-May-83 1924 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: Other Clues?
Russ:
The only actively used CORLL sysout around is the highest version of
<MJAMES>NIGEL.EXE. It has the MJAMES CORLL installed and applied to a few of
our data types. It's runnable from your logins, or FTPeeable. There is a lot
of file integrity stuff in there. When it starts asking you file questions, I
think you can ↑D without screwing things up too much. Because of the file
stuff, it will probably run better here.
Hope that does all you want. Another possibility would be a function by
function comparison of ours with the previous one, ala COMPAREDEF. Beyond
that, clearly a last resort, is to ask Steve.
Cheers.
Bill
-------
∂13:04 23-May: mann@isib/su Thwarted, temporarily
Thanks for pointing me to NIGEL -- it did work perfectly for RLL.KB.
When I started to convert SLOTS.KB I found the grim reaper/archiver
had beat me to it. Once these files are RETRIEVEd I should be able
to convert them, and send them to the safety of SUMEX.
Thanks again for your assistance,
Russ
∂23-May-83 1325 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: Thwarted, temporarily
To: Russell Greiner <RDG@SU-AI>
In-Reply-To: Your message of 23 May 83 1304 PDT
Russ:
Strange. Perhaps the files got archived because they had very old dates still
attached. Anyway, if the RETRIEVE actions take longer than .5 hours, let me
know and I'll put some pressure on.
Cheers.
Bill
-------
∂11:58 26-May: mann@isib/su Hallelujah!
Bill -
I seem to have suceeded in reading and xwriting the missing XKBs;
and have transfered the files which (I think) I'll need over to Sumex.
Finally! I then deleted all the <MANCOM.RLL.RAND> files...
would it have been wiser to
DELETE <file>,
contents-only
(or whatever) - to leave those files offline? That is, if I end up
needing some obscure file, will ISIB's retrieval mechanism be able to
find it? Also, will those DUMP tapes remain in perpetuity;
or be overwritten eventually?
I too hope this will be the last in a too-long series of
interruptions. Thanks for your on-going help and support,
Russ
∂26-May-83 1344 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: Hallelujah!
Russ:
I looked. The way you deleted them, they are all gone except for the KB AND
XKB files that you archived. Those are accessible by the RETRIEVE command.
For the rest, if we have to get them off of the tape again, we can.
Hope it all works.
Bill
-------
∂27-May-83 1252 MANN@USC-ISIB Re: Hallelujah!
Russ:
p.s.: I'll probably hold onto this dump tape for a year or two. If we can
see now that something is going to be needed, we should get it off and into
archive now.
Bill
-------
∂18 May 1983 0532-PDT RTAYLOR at USC-ECL RLL
Return-Path: RTAYLOR%USC-ECL.ARPA@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Received: from SU-SCORE.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Wed 18 May 83 08:04:16-PDT
Received: from USC-ECL by SU-SCORE.ARPA with TCP; Wed 18 May 83 05:36:20-PDT
Subject: [RTAYLOR at USC-ECL: RLL]
Subject: [Doug Lenat <LENAT@SU-SCORE.ARPA>: Re: RLL]
Subject: [RTAYLOR at USC-ECL: Re: RLL]
Subject: [Doug Lenat <LENAT@SU-SCORE.ARPA>: Re: RLL]
From: RTAYLOR at USC-ECL
To: greiner at SCORE
Message-ID: <[USC-ECL]18-May-83 05:32:36.RTAYLOR>
Hi Russ,
I think the forwarded msgs are self-explanatory. If not, or you need
more info, please let me know. Thanks.
Roz
Begin forwarded messages
Mail-From: USC-ECL
Received-Date: 17-May-83 0610-PDT
Date: 17 May 1983 0610-PDT
From: RTAYLOR at USC-ECL
To: csd.lenat at SU-SCORE
Subject: RLL
Bcc: RTAYLOR at USC-ECL
Message-ID: <[USC-ECL]17-May-83 06:10:27.RTAYLOR>
Sender: RTAYLOR at USC-ECL
Hi!
I introduced myself in Feb as the newest member of Nort Fowler's group
at RADC. I am responsible for expert systems and expert systems tools.
According to the list Rich Evans compiled last year, you are the point of
contact for RLL. If this is no longer true, please let me know who I
should contact.
I need to know what the current version of RLL is (if more than one),
which version is available for RADC to acquire, what paperwork is needed to
acquire it, how much it costs, and anything else you can think of to help
me. Thanks.
Roz
--------------------
Date: Tue 17 May 83 09:21:55-PDT
From: Doug Lenat <LENAT@SU-SCORE.ARPA>
To: RTAYLOR@USC-ECL.ARPA
Subject: Re: RLL
In-Reply-To: Message from "RTAYLOR at USC-ECL" of Tue 17 May 83 06:10:00-PDT
Return-path: <LENAT@SU-SCORE>
Received: from SU-SCORE by USC-ECL; Tue 17 May 83 09:19:28-PDT
Russ Greiner (greiner@score) has a version up and running I believe.
We do not generally disseminate our ongoing research items, though.
What exactly do you wish to do with it?
Regards
Doug
-------
--------------------
Mail-From: USC-ECL
Received-Date: 17-May-83 1201-PDT
Date: 17 May 1983 1201-PDT
From: RTAYLOR at USC-ECL
To: LENAT at SU-SCORE
Subject: Re: RLL
Bcc: rtaylor at USC-ECL
In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue 17 May 83 09:21:55-PDT
Message-ID: <[USC-ECL]17-May-83 12:01:08.RTAYLOR>
Sender: RTAYLOR at USC-ECL
Hi,
The official objective is: "To evaluate existing knowledge base tools
which have been used to build expert systems. This evaluation will
determine the strengths and weaknesses of these various tools; such as
their ease of use, their knowlege base management techniques, and their
knowledge base maintenance techniques." Typical "government-ese"!
Basically, as an "in-house" effort, I am supposed to acquire (for use as
part of the in-house effort) various expert systems and tools for our use
in accomplishing these official objective.
I am supposed to get "up to speed" on each, then bring the rest of the
group up to speed, and then we all are supposed to work at the evaluation
"under my guidance" (so to speak). Nort (Fowler) suggested I start the in
house effort by contacting all of the people on Rich Evans' list. The
official objective is quoted from the one page in house report I prepared
for the commander. Any other questions I can try to answer? Did I provide
the info you needed?
Roz
--------------------
Date: Tue 17 May 83 17:44:27-PDT
From: Doug Lenat <LENAT@SU-SCORE.ARPA>
To: RTAYLOR@USC-ECL.ARPA
Subject: Re: RLL
In-Reply-To: Message from "RTAYLOR at USC-ECL" of Tue 17 May 83 12:01:00-PDT
Return-path: <LENAT@SU-SCORE>
Received: from SU-SCORE by USC-ECL; Tue 17 May 83 17:42:04-PDT
Yes, thanks, Roz. Let me know if there's any trouble getting the
buggy but runnable old RLL from Russ (GREINER@SCORE).
Doug
-------
--------------------
End forwarded messages
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